Congressmen Discuss Gold Confiscation

Editor's Note: There’s been quite a spirited debate over the last while about whether the US and other Western governments could eventually force their citizens to give up their gold holdings at a set price as FDR did back in 1933.

Even if you believe this is unlikely to happen in your home country, it’s still best to be prepared for the worst case scenario by diversifying your finances as best as possible.

For now though, hopefully this fictitious discussion between two congressmen will shed some insight into how a bureaucrat’s thinking process might proceed.

Congressmen Discuss Gold Confiscation

By Jeff Thomas

Will the US government confiscate the gold held by its citizenry at some point, as they did in 1933? Will other countries, particularly the EU countries, follow suit? This subject is a particularly thorny one. There are strong arguments both pro and con. Most of us - even those who have followed the issue for years - are inclined to say that it’s too soon to tell.

Most of the arguments, both pro and con, are ones we have heard from businessmen. And of course they offer businesslike reasoning for their opinions. The trouble is, politicians do not think like businessmen. My dealings with politicians of numerous countries over many years have revealed that they are a breed apart from those of us in the business world. Both their perspective and their priorities are decidedly different. It’s something that seems to be fairly universal regardless of what part of the world they come from, namely:

Politicians the world over are driven more by the preservation and

increase of their own power than any other interest. As a major byproduct

of this drive, they distrust both independent thinking and economic power

in the electorate and seek to limit both as much as they can.

Most of us recognize these traits in our politicians, but it took me years of working with them to understand just how indelible these traits are and to what degree they drive our legislators.

In attempting to look into the crystal ball and see if we can guess what politicians will do regarding confiscation of gold, it may be a useful exercise to imagine a conversation on the topic from the (U.S.) politician’s point of view rather than from our own.

Senator Rep: Well, I’m glad we got that budget discussion over with.

Senator Dem: I don’t really see the point. If we want more money, we just create a new tax. …Now, I know you’re going to say that those Tea Baggers are giving you guys hell about taxes, but you know the drill. We both want to raise taxes, say, 4%, so our party says we say we need 8%, your party says no new taxes, we hem and haw and we settle at 4%. Then you and me each get the tax level that we’re after and our voters are happy that each one of us got a compromise out of the other.

Senator Rep: Look, I’m not complaining. It’s a screwed up system, but we’ve made it work for us congressmen for generations. Trouble is, this time we’re pretty deep in the hole and we’re going to have to find some new ways to extract money from the taxpayers. It’s gonna take more than we can squeeze them for anytime soon.

Senator Dem: Well, some of the others have been talking about this gold thing. Confiscate all the gold like FDR did in ’33.

Senator Rep: I’ve heard that going around, but I don’t completely get it.

Senator Dem: Look, let’s face it. If we need more money, all we have to do is print it. The real reason we tax is to sheer the sheep. We can’t afford to let them get too wooly or we lose our control of them. We have to keep them dependant on us or we lose our power base. Now, this gold thing is becoming a problem. More and more people are getting rid of dollars and buying gold. We can’t let that happen.

Senator Rep: Well that’s a point. But we can’t just take it. What did FDR do?

Senator Dem: He announced the Emergency banking Act that made it illegal to own gold. He gave people less than a month to turn in all their gold other than jewelry to the banks. They were paid the going rate - $20.67 an ounce. Then he revalued gold at $35.00 an ounce, devaluing the currency by 69% overnight.

Senator Rep: That’s fantastic! That devaluation alone could solve our international debt problem. The Fed’s method is taking years…. Hang on, though, people are already angry at us. If we pull a stunt like that, they’ll go through the roof.

Senator Dem: Nah. The guys who are holding gold will go nuts, but we can handle them. They’re only a small percentage of the population. We just have to use the old “greedy rich” spin. We get the newsmen to say, “An increasing number of wealthy Americans have become involved in hoarding gold, which has done visible damage to the economy, particularly the middle class, making it impossible for the government to pull us out of the recession. As President Roosevelt did in 1933 when wealthy businessmen did this, Congress has passed legislation to cease this destructive practice.” Then we go on TV and act indignant. We say, “If we had not stepped in quickly, I hate to think what would have happened to the average family that’s already having trouble making ends meet.”

Senator Rep: You’re right. That would work. And the few whose gold we take would be afraid to speak up, for fear of being tagged as the greedy rich. It wouldn’t matter if some of them just had a few coins – they’d be tarred with the same brush… But hang on, there’s talk of some kind of gold mania, in which the majority of Americans start buying gold, if only an ounce or two. This idea won’t work for us if the majority of Americans oppose it.

Senator Dem: Hmmm. That’s true. What that means is that we’d want to head off the mania. Confiscate now, before everybody and his dog has bought gold.

Senator Rep: Maybe we can do better than that. We’d want to scoop up as much as we can. After all, we’d rather be holding gold than the Fed’s worthless paper. So, here’s what we do. We pick a point at which the bigger buyers are already in. They do all the work for us by buying up gold wherever they can. We don’t wait for gold to hit $5000 because then the mania’s already underway. We pick a point to confiscate – say, $2000. We write up the legislation now, get the speech writers to get our sound bites ready and, when gold hits $2000, we move. Do you think the others in Congress will go for it?

Senator Dem: Are you kidding?

Senator Rep: Okay, stupid question. Do you think we should work with the EU on this – you know, get them to do the same thing so that we tie up all the gold in the free world in one go?

Senator Dem: I hadn’t thought of that. I’ll have to weigh the pros and cons. Anyway, we agree on confiscation?

Senator Rep: We’d be stupid not to.

Editor's Note: It’s an interesting hypothetical situation that may or may not happen. What do you think? Is gold confiscation on the horizon for the US? What about other countries? We'd love to hear what you have to say.

If you want to read more about Jeff’s comments on gold confiscation, you’ll likely enjoy his article, The Greatest Threat to Gold Ownership.

[While gold confiscation may or may not happen, a prudent person prepares for the worst and hopes for the best. In this case, that means getting a portion of your holdings overseas. One of the best places in the world to do so is Das Safe in Vienna, Austria and in one of our recent reports, we paid a personal visit to the facility and collected all the facts you need to determine if it’s right for you. Join the International Man Network today and gain free access to expertly-crafted reports, including information on Das Safe. Click here for all the details.]

Tags: 1933 , gold , gold confiscation , Jeff Thomas , US Congress , US government

  • Peter

    Posted at 2011-05-11 04:10:37

    I believe at some point in time confiscation will enter the picture per your hypothethical situation.
    I believe they would stop at nothing to protect their own hides and as everyone knows or the few, gold is money. Who would take paper if currencies around the world are being debased?
    Paper = illusion Gold = real.

    Reply to comment

  • Leslie Chill

    Posted at 2011-05-11 09:52:47

    A good hypothesis Gentlemen but please remember back in 1933 the people in America were by and large law abiding and patriotic- today with the availability of information to anybody with a computer they are not so easily fooled - we all know that we are on the end road to fiat money, the consequences of which will cause untold misery to millions who would rather watch mind numbing TV ; instead of making themselves aware of what is really going on. Diversify, diversify - get out of the worthless dollar before it leaves you high and dry !

    Reply to comment

  • Chase

    Posted at 2011-07-20 23:34:53

    The Gold Confiscation of 1933 is the single most draconian economic act in the history of the United States!

    Reply to comment

  • Susan

    Posted at 2011-09-20 01:35:21

    I would like to hear more about what the scenario looks like for people that have gold stored outside of the country - either in certificate form (e.g. Perth Mint) or in bank/private safety deposit boxes. Also, since you never seem to mention silver in any discussion involving confiscation, then is it any safer to assume that silver would be exempt, and thereby a preferable "investment" at this point?

    Reply to comment

  • Leslie Chill

    Posted at 2011-09-20 03:57:21

    To all you gold bugs out there- Don't think that by having a Perth Mint Certificate or Bullion Vault account that you will be safe-as you have to declare these every year on your TDF form. The only way you can guarantee absolute ownership is to open up a private safety deposit box in a foreign country and put gold in it- no names no pack drill- you don't have to legally report this -yet ! though I don't know how they will ever be able to find out.
    Silver will join the forbidden list soon -just wait !
    You can still go down to your local Bullion shop and buy for cash all the bullion you can carry out- no receipts etc.etc but when the time comes to sell watch out -that's when the Goverment will come collecting its share in some form or another. This Goverment will not go down without a fight. If you have family abroad send them money and have them buy on your behalf .

    Reply to comment

  • Chris Lock

    Posted at 2011-09-20 15:37:38

    If this happens it is still best to buy gold. Owners would be paid the full value at "confiscation" and the price doubled afterward.

    Reply to comment

  • Leslie Chill

    Posted at 2011-09-20 17:39:07

    Chris,
    You're missing the point here- when you get paid for your gold even if it is at the current market price you will still miss out on the revaluated price just as in 1933. Secondly what are you going to purchase with your valuable dollar bills that you have been given in exchange- by that time currency controls will be in place so you will no longer be allowed to send money out of the country to at least take advantage of stronger countries and currencies. You will be trapped in a worthless currency with little to show for it, look at history for example after example - it didn't end well for all the previous people !

    Reply to comment

    • Chris

      Posted at 2011-09-21 03:31:14

      Chris,

      You're missing the point here- when you get paid for your gold even if it is at the current market price you will still miss out on the revaluated price just as in 1933. Secondly what are you going to purchase with your valuable dollar bills that you have been given in exchange- by that time currency controls will be in place so you will no longer be allowed to send money out of the country to at least take advantage of stronger countries and currencies. You will be trapped in a worthless currency with little to show for it, look at history for example after example - it didn't end well for all the previous people !


      I'm not missing the point. Of course you are going to miss out on the revalued price, but who isn't? You'll lose out a whole lot more if you just hold dollars which will depreciate while gold appreciates up to the confiscation. It is still best to hold the gold until the confiscation. As the article or the other on the home page pointed out, if/when the confiscation comes you'll want to get out of the dollars ASAP, assuming the fall is still on at that point.

      You can sell your gold now for $1800 and save those dollars until the confiscation or you can keep your gold and get $3000 for it at confiscation. Which would you rather have 1800 devalued dollars or 3000 devalued dollars? We're only talking dollars and gold here, not other investments.

      Reply to comment

      • Chris

        Posted at 2011-09-21 23:43:54

        You can sell your gold now for $1800 and save those dollars until the confiscation or you can keep your gold and get $3000 for it at confiscation. Which would you rather have 1800 devalued dollars or 3000 devalued dollars? We're only talking dollars and gold here, not other investments.[/quote]

        When you have to sell at the confiscation price you will be given a TAX receipt to go with your end of year Tax return, you will need to declare your capital gains by proving your purchase price OR they would decide that for you based on date stamped on coin / serial # on bar etc.
        The Tax Rate in US is 28% but this could be increased due to windfall profits on Gold to say 50% or 100%

        Reply to comment

        • Chris L

          Posted at 2011-09-22 07:17:37

          So work out which is best financially for you. You're still going to better off holding the gold until confiscation. You'll have to pay taxes on either the $1800 or $3000.

          All I will have to pay is a 5% sales tax where I am, and/or about 10% income tax on the profits. If you are so worried that all your profits are going to be taxed at 50 - 100% then maybe you will decide not to make a profit on anything and just hold depreciating $. I know it's easier said than done -- and now in the US extremely costly -- but if I felt that way I'd try my hardest to get out of such a country for good; it doesn't profit one to stay.

  • Ed Culbertson

    Posted at 2012-01-05 12:27:10

    If you paid cash for your stash off any record, how woud any gov. body know to come knocking for confiscation?

    Reply to comment

    • geoff

      Posted at 2012-02-13 16:18:38

      possession of (small quantities) of bullion after a confiscation/conversion date may be deemed illegal, ergo buying and selling may be difficult and illegal. The search is on for a non-precious-metal commodity that that can be readily stored and has market value across economies.

      Reply to comment

      • bobg

        Posted at 2012-03-08 21:52:12

        possession of (small quantities) of bullion after a confiscation/conversion date may be deemed illegal, ergo buying and selling may be difficult and illegal. The search is on for a non-precious-metal commodity that that can be readily stored and has market value across economies.
        Pretty good deduction Geoff. That search has always been on in such circumstances - but it doesn't have to be metal - it's called barter. A friend of mine lived through the Zimbabwe hyperinflation and that's what happened there. People stored things like gasoline, oil, replacement auto parts, water filters, guns, ammunition, pepper spray, rice, beans, vegetable oil, water containers, Coleman fuel, garbage bags, soap, razor blades, cigarettes, etc. etc. etc. and traded them for what they needed. Probably a similar thing will happen in the US.

        Reply to comment

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